Birle contemplates the existence of an elusive ideal, pondering its nature and whether it can truly be attained. She engages with Birle, who acknowledges that while many men dream of this ideal, none have proven its existence. He suggests that the dreams of men may stem from deeper desires, fears, and aspirations, leaving open the possibility that such an ideal might exist despite the absence of tangible evidence.

Birle's dialogue raises questions about the source of human aspirations, pointing out that dreams can arise from both greed and noble pursuits like justice and healing. The conversation reflects the complexities of human desire, suggesting that even unattainable ideals serve a purpose by driving men to strive for something greater, hinting at the possibility of an ordered and just world.